Was the Pope embalmed?

[Alasdair Baxter]

I am wondering whether Pope John Paul II's body was embalmed
immediately after his death. He seemed very fresh as he lay in state
on his catafalque. Were he not treated in some way, I should have
thought that decomposition would have visibly set in towards the end
of his lying in state.

I have never been to the Vatican but have been told by some who had
visited there that the bodies of former popes are on public display in
glass-topped coffins. Is this correct and will Pope John Paul II's
body be put on public display in due course?

--

Alasdair Baxter, Nottingham, UK.Tel [phone]; Fax [phone]

"It's not what you say that matters but how you say it.
It's not what you do that matters but how you do it"

[Mark Goodge]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:51:33 +0100, Alasdair Baxter put finger to

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I am wondering whether Pope John Paul II's body was embalmed
immediately after his death. He seemed very fresh as he lay in state
on his catafalque. Were he not treated in some way, I should have
thought that decomposition would have visibly set in towards the end
of his lying in state.

Apparantly not. See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4417155.stm

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I have never been to the Vatican but have been told by some who had
visited there that the bodies of former popes are on public display in
glass-topped coffins. Is this correct and will Pope John Paul II's
body be put on public display in due course?

It's not usual practice. See the above web page for more information
on this, as well.

Mark

[Richard Emblem]

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I am wondering whether Pope John Paul II's body was embalmed
immediately after his death. He seemed very fresh as he lay in state
on his catafalque. Were he not treated in some way, I should have
thought that decomposition would have visibly set in towards the end
of his lying in state.

Is the pope's body embalmed?

Embalming the pope's body is a longstanding tradition. However,
according to some news reports, Pope John Paul II's body was not
embalmed, but merely touched up with cosmetics for public viewing--if
true, a distinct break with tradition. The Vatican announced that the
pope's body was being "prepared," and the confusion in the press may
stem from differences in mortuary terminology in English and Italian.
The bodies of the three popes who preceded John Paul II--John XXIII
(d. 1963), Paul VI (d. 1978), and John Paul I (1978)--were all
embalmed, in a procedure that involves draining the blood and other
bodily fluids and intravenously injecting a preservative liquid such
as formaldehyde.

Until the early 20th century, not only were popes' bodies embalmed but
their internal organs were removed and those of the saintly popes were
venerated as relics. Pope Pius X, who reigned from 1903 to 1914,
abolished this custom.

The Vatican has not given an explanation for the break with tradition
with respect to John Paul II's body.

<ttp://www.beliefnet.com/story/163/story_16390_1.html#embalmed>

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I have never been to the Vatican but have been told by some who had
visited there that the bodies of former popes are on public display in
glass-topped coffins. Is this correct and will Pope John Paul II's
body be put on public display in due course?

I dont recall seeing any in glass-topped coffins.

Richard Emblem

"God loves you and there's not a thing you can do to change that."
(Rev Tom Van Culin, Honolulu)

[Robert Marshall]

Post by Richard Emblem

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I have never been to the Vatican but have been told by some who had
visited there that the bodies of former popes are on public display
in glass-topped coffins. Is this correct and will Pope John Paul
II's body be put on public display in due course?

I dont recall seeing any in glass-topped coffins.

Me neither, though they may be in other parts of the Vatican?
http://ctlibrary.com/8157 suggests the crypt

<quote> The only other popes[1] in glass coffins for public viewing
are Blessed Innocent XI (who died in 1689, and was beatified by Pius
XII in 1956) and St Pius X (who died in 1914, was beatified in 1951
and canonized in 1954 by Pius XII).
</quote>

[1] apart from John XXIII

Robert

[Alec]

Post by Robert Marshall

Post by Richard Emblem

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I have never been to the Vatican but have been told by some who had
visited there that the bodies of former popes are on public display
in glass-topped coffins. Is this correct and will Pope John Paul
II's body be put on public display in due course?

I dont recall seeing any in glass-topped coffins.

Me neither, though they may be in other parts of the Vatican?
http://ctlibrary.com/8157 suggests the crypt
<quote> The only other popes[1] in glass coffins for public viewing
are Blessed Innocent XI (who died in 1689, and was beatified by Pius
XII in 1956) and St Pius X (who died in 1914, was beatified in 1951
and canonized in 1954 by Pius XII).
</quote>
[1] apart from John XXIII

I saw the embalmed body of Pope John under St Jerome altar at St Peter's,
after viewing the body of John Paul II last Thursday.

Alec

[Kendall K. Down]

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I have never been to the Vatican but have been told by some who had
visited there that the bodies of former popes are on public display in
glass-topped coffins. Is this correct and will Pope John Paul II's
body be put on public display in due course?

First I've heard of it. I've been to Rome several times and also Avignon.
All the popes I've seen have been decently hidden beneath several tons of
marble.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down

[Quasin]

Post by Alasdair Baxter
I am wondering whether Pope John Paul II's body was embalmed
immediately after his death. He seemed very fresh as he lay in state
on his catafalque. Were he not treated in some way, I should have
thought that decomposition would have visibly set in towards the end
of his lying in state.

A local editorial said he was not embalmed, and went on to talk about
this as proof that, unlike what funeral directors try to convince us
of for their own economic benefit, embalming is not necessary just
because you want a body buried a few days after death instead of
immediately.

I have no idea how long an unembalmed body remains, er, viewable; nor
whether local laws permit unembalmed bodies to remain unburied for a
few days.

Quasin

[Tony Bryer]

Post by Quasin
A local editorial said he was not embalmed, and went on to talk
about this as proof that, unlike what funeral directors try to
convince us of for their own economic benefit, embalming is not
necessary just because you want a body buried a few days after
death instead of immediately.
I have no idea how long an unembalmed body remains, er, viewable;
nor whether local laws permit unembalmed bodies to remain unburied
for a few days.

"Posthumous papal misfortune continued into modern times. In 1958,
Pope Pius XII's pre-death agony was photographed by an unscrupulous
physician and the pictures splashed on the front pages of Italian
newspapers.

The luckless Pius XII was not only tabloid fodder because of the
clandestine photos; his body also decomposed significantly before
burial. Accounts from the time describe his corpse turning "emerald
green'' and stolid Swiss Guards fainting from the smell.

When papal aides instructed that Pope Paul VI be only lightly
embalmed upon his death in 1978, they failed to take Rome's steamy
summertime weather into account. After two days on public display in
the August heat, the body began to putrefy.

John Paul's corpse was not embalmed, Vatican spokesman Joaquin
Navarro-Valls said this week, but did undergo treatment to preserve
it during public viewing.

Vatican officials indicated that the procedure involved the injection
of a formaldehyde-based fluid, which falls short of a full embalming
process."

http://www.startribune.com/stories/614/5335883.html

As AJP Taylor might have said "it all depends what you mean by
embalming".

A minister I know who came down here from Scotland said that where he
had been it was a custom to hold a funeral service in the deceased's
house but it was not unknown for the undertaker to tactfully suggest
that the coffin might best be left in the hearse outside.

[Quasin]

Post by Tony Bryer
John Paul's corpse was not embalmed, Vatican spokesman Joaquin
Navarro-Valls said this week, but did undergo treatment to preserve
it during public viewing.
Vatican officials indicated that the procedure involved the injection
of a formaldehyde-based fluid, which falls short of a full embalming
process."

That makes sense of a local article's wording, "lightly embalmed."
Thanks.

Quasin

[Gareth McCaughan]

Post by Tony Bryer
As AJP Taylor might have said "it all depends what you mean by
embalming".

<pedant>Do you mean CEM Joad, or am I missing something?</pedant>

[Richard Emblem]

On 14 Apr 2005 01:21:27 +0100, Gareth McCaughan

Post by Gareth McCaughan

Post by Tony Bryer
As AJP Taylor might have said "it all depends what you mean by
embalming".

<pedant>Do you mean CEM Joad, or am I missing something?</pedant>

Surely even you're not old enough to remember him Gareth - thanks for
the laugh. Pedants are such fun.

CYRIL JOAD (1891 - 1953)
Born in Durham, Professor C.E.M Joad was a civil servant (1914-30)
before becoming became head of the philosophy department at Birkbeck
College, London. He wrote 47 books in all, notably a Guide to
Philosophy (1936) and a Guide to the Philosophy of Morals and Politics
(1938). He was best known for his appearances on the BBC radio
programme The Brains Trust and for his catchphrase: 'It all depends
what you mean by...'


Richard Emblem

"God loves you and there's not a thing you can do to change that."
(Rev Tom Van Culin, Honolulu)

[Gareth McCaughan]

Richard Emblem wrote:

[me:]

Post by Richard Emblem

Post by Gareth McCaughan
<pedant>Do you mean CEM Joad, or am I missing something?</pedant>

[Richard:]

Post by Richard Emblem
Surely even you're not old enough to remember him Gareth - thanks for
the laugh. Pedants are such fun.

No, not old enough; but his catchphrase is pretty famous,
at least among those among whom such things are famous.

[Tony Bryer]

Post by Gareth McCaughan

Post by Tony Bryer
As AJP Taylor might have said "it all depends what you mean by
embalming".

<pedant>Do you mean CEM Joad, or am I missing something?</pedant>

I always was hopeless with names!